Cellulose Thinners

[trjcampbell]

Hi guys,

What are the disadvantages of using cellulose thinners with acrylics instead of standard acrylic thinner? Is it just a health thing because of the fumes? Does it have any effect on the airbrush long term?

I had been using Ultimate thinner until very recently with Tamiya paints and my Iwata Neo airbursh, but then for some reason the performance went downhill. I was having to use a disproportionate amount of thinner to get the paint to cooperate and not come out super grainy. Then, because I think I'd read somewhere that some people do it, I tried using cellulose thinners and it was like night and day. Super easy performance and great looking results quickly.

Am I playing with fire here? From what I can tell most people stick to acrylic thinners rather than cellulose, but it's working great for me at the moment... is there anything I'm missing or should be cautious of?

Thank you!

[Twokidsnosleep]

Yep, I use cellulose or Laquer thinners for my Tamiyas almost exclusively now. Have not touched the X20 A thinner in over a year. Mr Color levelling thinner is my new favorite, but others work
They make a huge difference in how things spray......smooth and clean.

Yes health is a huge issue so lots of fresh air and a proper spray hood venting outside are necessary
You can also wear a respirator on top of that.

The thinners can make for wonky airbrush O-rings if you soak in them too long. So just clean out and flush with something else as the last rinse.

[sheppsea]

I also use Mr Colour Levelling Thinner exclusively (I only really use Tamiya and Mr Hobby paints) - I love it

I also use cellulose thinner to clean my airbrush, although I feel less comfortable using that, I just find they make it so much quicker and easier than anything else

[Jens]

I begun my airbrush career with Tamiya paint and cellulose thinner and the result is phenomenally good - but damn it stinks and gives you a headache unless you use a ventilated spray booth...
I then tried isopropanol instead and from a painting point of view it works equally good as cellulose thinner - but without smelling and headaches!

I don't use a spray booth and I can paint for hours without problem. I don't use a ventilator either.

The only downside with isopropanol compared to cellulose thinner is that it doesn't clean the airbrush as well afterwards, but from a painting point of view it's equally good.

I don't buy brand name thinners simply because you're paying way more than you should... I just searched for the datasheets and learned what were in them and knew that I could buy just big bottles of isopropanol and be happy spraying away using a thinner that costs virtually nothing compared!

Cellulose thinner eats o-rings and other plastics so make sure your airbrush has proper o-rings if you must use cellulose thinner - or buy a bottle of isopropanol (isopropyl in some countries) and use that instead.

[trjcampbell]

Thanks guys, I'll get hold of some Mr Color thinner and try that out.

I'll also definitely try Isopropyl or Isopropanol as you call it. Funnily enough I have access to a supply of it at work, I had no idea it could be used as airbrush thinner! Very interested to see how that will go.

[Jens]

Tamiya paint works very well in a 50/50 mix with isopropyl/isopropanol for sure and I can almost guarantee that it'll work equally well with any other paint that works with cellulose thinner. It dries almost as fast but without the smell. It's also kinder to skin as cellulose thinner can irritate the fingers after a session without gloves.

Mr Levelling Thinner is great for finishing lacquer paint jobs as it "self levels" the surface to give a perfect finish - but it's a lot more expensive than a bottle of isopropanol!
I use them both but for different things.

For cleaning brushes there's nothing better than cellulose thinner though if you ask me...

Good luck trying your new thinners!

[Paul]

I begun my airbrush career with Tamiya paint and cellulose thinner and the result is phenomenally good - but damn it stinks and gives you a headache unless you use a ventilated spray booth...
I then tried isopropanol instead and from a painting point of view it works equally good as cellulose thinner - but without smelling and headaches!

I don't use a spray booth and I can paint for hours without problem. I don't use a ventilator either.

The only downside with isopropanol compared to cellulose thinner is that it doesn't clean the airbrush as well afterwards, but from a painting point of view it's equally good.

I don't buy brand name thinners simply because you're paying way more than you should... I just searched for the datasheets and learned what were in them and knew that I could buy just big bottles of isopropanol and be happy spraying away using a thinner that costs virtually nothing compared!

Cellulose thinner eats o-rings and other plastics so make sure your airbrush has proper o-rings if you must use cellulose thinner - or buy a bottle of isopropanol (isopropyl in some countries) and use that instead.

Theres more in those thinners than just those those ingredients, i can tell you for a fact our Ultimate thinner has several ingredients that all help with the painting process

[Jens]

Theres more in those thinners than just those those ingredients, i can tell you for a fact our Ultimate thinner has several ingredients that all help with the painting process

Don't get me wrong - there are many better thinners out there for scale modelling and airbrushing for sure, just look at Mr Levelling Thinner e.g.

2-Pentanone, 4-hydroxy-4-methyl 5～10% (Tyranton/Diacetone alcohol C6H12O2)
2-Propanol 20～30% (Isopropanol C3H8O)
isobutyl alcohol 20～30% (Isobutanol C4H10O)
2-Pentanone, 4-methyl 20～30% (Methyl isobutyl ketone MIBK C6H12O)
Ethanol, 2-butoxy 5～10% (2-Butoxyethanol BuOC2H4OH)

But pure isopropanol isn't bad at all as a general thinner, especially not with a couple drops of flow improver and retarder depending on climate where you live and the paint you want to thin.
I have a spinal injury so I do a lot of my modelling in bed, including painting. Isopropanol is the only thinner that doesn't give me a headache and that's partly why I almost exclusively use it with Tamiya paint. MRP doesn't need thinner, only a fine mist of Mr Levelling Thinner as a last coat.

For pure acrylics you obviously use different thinners...

My point was that I think that isopropanol is a "better" thinner than cellulose thinner, not better than any thinner!

[aade]

I’m not sure what cellulose thinners are, but I assume it’s the lacquer thinners mentioned throughout the tread. If so, my personal choice is to use those with polymer based paints such as Tamiya and Mr. Hobby, regardless if they’re water based.

The reason why is because the carrier (generally some sort of alcohol) evaporates so quickly that the air that inevitably sticks to the monomers actually bind to polymer structures and cause a gritty texture. People tend to thin the paint more to compensate for this, but in all reality I’ve found myself spraying dust by the time it hits the model and I get terrible finish.

The lacquer thinner breaks the polymer bond as well as evaporates ever so slightly less quickly. The combo effect is a much smoother paint job that stays wet for longer.

I’m not so fussy about the stink factor because I spray outside.

[niro750]

Instead of buying small amounts at high prices, go to an automotive paint store. I just bought 5l of cellulose thinners for about 9 quid! I'd pay probably 5 for a small tin or jar of a hobby one. Also bought a 5l tin of degreaser for 10 or 11 quid. Primer? Half a litre unthinned for under a tenner. Ok it's beige but it will probably last me until I die from inhaling all the fumes.

[digger303]

I’m not sure what cellulose thinners are, but I assume it’s the lacquer thinners mentioned throughout the tread. If so, my personal choice is to use those with polymer based paints such as Tamiya and Mr. Hobby, regardless if they’re water based.

The reason why is because the carrier (generally some sort of alcohol) evaporates so quickly that the air that inevitably sticks to the monomers actually bind to polymer structures and cause a gritty texture. People tend to thin the paint more to compensate for this, but in all reality I’ve found myself spraying dust by the time it hits the model and I get terrible finish.

The lacquer thinner breaks the polymer bond as well as evaporates ever so slightly less quickly. The combo effect is a much smoother paint job that stays wet for longer.

I’m not so fussy about the stink factor because I spray outside.

yep your on it .... lacquer thinners.

It also has a added effect of for want of a better word of melting previously applied paint . Recombining , flattening and generally recreating the surface making it smoother.
As Niro750 said it is much cheaper to use a hardware or auto shop brand than to buy from a model shop. You just have to put some into a smaller container for ease of use.