difference between wash and panel liner

[Garion77]

Hi everyone,
may be my question going to sound stupid. But I've been modeling for a short time. What is the difference between a wash (like Ultimate's) and panel liner like ak's or mig. And in what situation would use on versus the other ? When I got back in modeling recently I started doing planes. I've been using wash with mix sucess. but I've been given AK panel liner kit as gift recently.

[Twokidsnosleep]

Ok I will take a shot here
I was hoping that smarter and more experienced would jump in, but you are stuck with me, mate
Here is my concept of panel liner and wash, how I wrap my head around them......your mileage may vary

By definition:
A Panel Liner.... is a pigment that will sit IN the recessed lines scribed on the surface of a model kit, not to be allowed onto the surface of the model proper.

For example, on an aircraft, the lines scribed into the plastic to represent actual separate panels of material that make the plane can be darkened with a liner.
My example, the spaces around the heat resistant tiles on a Space Shuttle. I panel lined them with Black Tamiya Panel Liner and tried my damnest to get it off the surfaces of the white tiles so that their surface looked as white as possible. A gloss coat helps to achieve this as matt coat will hold the excess liner on the surface.
The panel liner stain adds depth, definition and three dimensionality around each tile, giving separation to the moulded surface so as to look like multiple parts ie multiple ceramic tiles instead of one moulded blob.

A Surface Wash.....is a pigment that will sit ON the surface of a model to accentuate the entire surface, creating depth , shading or weathering effects....dirty, snowy, muddied, oily, exhaust smoke or a well worn used look thus increasing realism. You wipe away some, but not all of a wash from the surface of the model depending on the look you are after.

My example, I add a surface wash over my Spitrpfire Wings with light dirt so as to coat the surface and make the plane look like it has come from battle in the skies. Or, I use Mig dark wash on my engine block surface and wipe some away....it stays in the nooks and crannies and alters the tone of the aluminum paint thus making the engine block look more realistic ‘washing‘ over it with oil.

Do washes get into panel lines??? Absolutely
Do I use Mig dark wash as a panel liner sometimes?? Yep

See clear as mud....which you could also use as a wash....or panel liner

Gosh I hope I helped a little bit
Keep your stick on the ice, eh

[Fridgy]

Ok I will take a shot here
I was hoping that smarter and more experienced would jump in, but you are stuck with me, mate
Here is my concept of panel liner and wash, how I wrap my head around them......your mileage may vary

By definition:
A Panel Liner.... is a pigment that will sit IN the recessed lines scribed on the surface of a model kit, not to be allowed onto the surface of the model proper.

For example, on an aircraft, the lines scribed into the plastic to represent actual separate panels of material that make the plane can be darkened with a liner.
My example, the spaces around the heat resistant tiles on a Space Shuttle. I panel lined them with Black Tamiya Panel Liner and tried my damnest to get it off the surfaces of the white tiles so that their surface looked as white as possible. A gloss coat helps to achieve this as matt coat will hold the excess liner on the surface.
The panel liner stain adds depth, definition and three dimensionality around each tile, giving separation to the moulded surface so as to look like multiple parts ie multiple ceramic tiles instead of one moulded blob.

A Surface Wash.....is a pigment that will sit ON the surface of a model to accentuate the entire surface, creating depth , shading or weathering effects....dirty, snowy, muddied, oily, exhaust smoke or a well worn used look thus increasing realism. You wipe away some, but not all of a wash from the surface of the model depending on the look you are after.

My example, I add a surface wash over my Spitrpfire Wings with light dirt so as to coat the surface and make the plane look like it has come from battle in the skies. Or, I use Mig dark wash on my engine block surface and wipe some away....it stays in the nooks and crannies and alters the tone of the aluminum paint thus making the engine block look more realistic ‘washing‘ over it with oil.

Do washes get into panel lines??? Absolutely
Do I use Mig dark wash as a panel liner sometimes?? Yep

See clear as mud....which you could also use as a wash....or panel liner

Gosh I hope I helped a little bit
Keep your stick on the ice, eh

That, IMHO, is probably one of the best descriptions of the difference ive read/heard....
I often use tamiyas black panel liner as a wash in landing gear bays etc....

You only lost me with the bit about keeping my stick on the ice..... i dont get it..... is that a different kind of wash/panel liner???

[Twokidsnosleep]

[

That, IMHO, is probably one of the best descriptions of the difference ive read/heard....
I often use tamiyas black panel liner as a wash in landing gear bays etc....

You only lost me with the bit about keeping my stick on the ice..... i dont get it..... is that a different kind of wash/panel liner???
[/quote]

I believe the heat of an Australian Winter has finally gotten to my friend Mick...he’s gone loopy, thinking I can explain something

[Stokesy44]

And to further add to the chaos, you can use Ultimate washes for panel line work. You get the same result as products designed specifically for panel line accenting.

Keep your puck on the stick

[ElCapitan]

I also use Mig panel line wash as a kind of dot filter on aircraft, and for some subtle streaking effects, so I guess there are many uses to both.

[Twokidsnosleep]

I also use Mig panel line wash as a kind of dot filter on aircraft, and for some subtle streaking effects, so I guess there are many uses to both.

Yep, it is all based on how you leave it on or in the surface, doesn't matter what you use.
I can panel line with a fine tip sharpie.....I could surface wash with a thick felt pen.
And don't get me started on surface prep for a wash or panel line.....Ugggggh

[Garion77]

Ok I will take a shot here
I was hoping that smarter and more experienced would jump in, but you are stuck with me, mate
Here is my concept of panel liner and wash, how I wrap my head around them......your mileage may vary

By definition:
A Panel Liner.... is a pigment that will sit IN the recessed lines scribed on the surface of a model kit, not to be allowed onto the surface of the model proper.

For example, on an aircraft, the lines scribed into the plastic to represent actual separate panels of material that make the plane can be darkened with a liner.
My example, the spaces around the heat resistant tiles on a Space Shuttle. I panel lined them with Black Tamiya Panel Liner and tried my damnest to get it off the surfaces of the white tiles so that their surface looked as white as possible. A gloss coat helps to achieve this as matt coat will hold the excess liner on the surface.
The panel liner stain adds depth, definition and three dimensionality around each tile, giving separation to the moulded surface so as to look like multiple parts ie multiple ceramic tiles instead of one moulded blob.

A Surface Wash.....is a pigment that will sit ON the surface of a model to accentuate the entire surface, creating depth , shading or weathering effects....dirty, snowy, muddied, oily, exhaust smoke or a well worn used look thus increasing realism. You wipe away some, but not all of a wash from the surface of the model depending on the look you are after.

My example, I add a surface wash over my Spitrpfire Wings with light dirt so as to coat the surface and make the plane look like it has come from battle in the skies. Or, I use Mig dark wash on my engine block surface and wipe some away....it stays in the nooks and crannies and alters the tone of the aluminum paint thus making the engine block look more realistic ‘washing‘ over it with oil.

Do washes get into panel lines??? Absolutely
Do I use Mig dark wash as a panel liner sometimes?? Yep

See clear as mud....which you could also use as a wash....or panel liner

Gosh I hope I helped a little bit
Keep your stick on the ice, eh

My god ! What an explanation ! Thank you ! Very informative !! I understand more now but am also a bit more confuse lol. I guess I'll see by trying the AK's panel liner on my next projet instead of a Ultimate wash.

I guess you can use different colors on the same subject of panel liner depending on the camouflage colors ? May be it makes it a bit more realistic ....
and use a wash on the underside for the grimy look...

Thank again !! very nice from you to take that much time to explain something to me. Really appreciated

[Twokidsnosleep]

Hey no worries, happy to help
It is a complicated subject hence the Python reference of starting an argument and why I frame it as how I interpret washes and liners
Make sure you have some paint protection before lining or washing....some type of clear, especially for a flat paint as it will suck up and hold the colour like crazy and you wont be able to wipe off. A smooth clear will let you allow the liner or wash to dry and then wipe off areas completely and leave the panel lines.
I use Future floor polish or floor care or whatever the heck they have decided to call it this week..you can just brush the darn stuff on.
Cheers

[SEBa111]

Hem.... I know this is for another topic but.. What about oil washes?
Also, what about the droid attack on the wookies?

[Twokidsnosleep]

Hem.... I know this is for another topic but.. What about oil washes?
Also, what about the droid attack on the wookies?

Greedo shot first and those were not the droids you were looking for.

Oil washes are just that...a wash with oil as the medium.They are a wash so will sit ON the surface.
I have used oil as a panel liner and left the oil just IN the recessed lines and removed it from the surfaces

[Twokidsnosleep]

Before this question arises, I will let Mr Skinner from FSM tell us what a PIN WASH is

A pinwash is a much more targeted wash where you use a fine brush and carefully apply the thin, dark paint to small areas like rivets, lines, etc. This is as opposed to a wash which is generally applied to the whole model with a wide brush. It seems to me that more modelers are using pinwashes instead of overall washes, especially on armor.

Cheers, Aaron
Aaron Skinner
Senior Editor
FineScale Modeler

Pin being shorthand for pinpoint
So it is like a panel wash, but not in a panel, rather AROUND a raised detail like a rivet or say on an engine around the casting details, but still not washes over the entire surface.

[DrSprue]

Wow thanks Scott! (I dont know how I miss these posts?) Very cool info about washes, liners & pins. Need to get some Tamiya's black accent color soon. (my LHS had only gray, which Ill use on a spaceship some day) but the black seems better for the rest of the stuff we do. Love Aaron's and Elizabeth's videos from FSM. They never sent me Januarys issue tho. They told me it might have got lost in the mail? Arrrgg. It had a P-51 on the cover too!

[Garion77]

Hey no worries, happy to help
It is a complicated subject hence the Python reference of starting an argument and why I frame it as how I interpret washes and liners
Make sure you have some paint protection before lining or washing....some type of clear, especially for a flat paint as it will suck up and hold the colour like crazy and you wont be able to wipe off. A smooth clear will let you allow the liner or ash to dry and then wipe off areas completely and leave the panel lines.
I use Future floor polish or floor care or whatever the heck they have decided to call it this week..you can just brush the darn stuff on.
Cheers

When I read your signature it's written bomber sig may 1st... can you explain more ? pretty new to groups builds and all. Thinking about trying one but don't know much what it involves

[Twokidsnosleep]

Hey no worries, happy to help
It is a complicated subject hence the Python reference of starting an argument and why I frame it as how I interpret washes and liners
Make sure you have some paint protection before lining or washing....some type of clear, especially for a flat paint as it will suck up and hold the colour like crazy and you wont be able to wipe off. A smooth clear will let you allow the liner or ash to dry and then wipe off areas completely and leave the panel lines.
I use Future floor polish or floor care or whatever the heck they have decided to call it this week..you can just brush the darn stuff on.
Cheers

When I read your signature it's written bomber sig may 1st... can you explain more ? pretty new to groups builds and all. Thinking about trying one but don't know much what it involves

Absolutely....go here and the thread talks about it.
May1st to Aug 31st here on ISM. Sign up just by adding a post to the thread
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=24016

[Twokidsnosleep]

When I read your signature it's written bomber sig may 1st... can you explain more ? pretty new to groups builds and all. Thinking about trying one but don't know much what it involves

I sent you a PM...private message about the bombers

[Twokidsnosleep]

So this thread pops up right after I have been messing and searching ‘Home made washes’
The figure guys online use India ink+ future+water as a Magic Wash in order to highlight all the figure’s details
The ratio is 1 part future: 4 parts water: ink or color to taste

So I did 1ml Future : 4ml distilled water : 1ml India ink into a little Tamiya jar
It gives a nice flowing wash that stays in the nooks and crannies. Worked well on my 1/72 ground crew guys

[SEBa111]

Is it possible to display separate traces of daily max and min temps line graphs in a custom graph for a month or week?

Homework?