Pin wash woes

[SteveAFV]

I've had an unexpected outcome of my first pin wash attempt. To provide enough info here's the history -

UML black primer, Tamiya German gray, Alclad II aqua gloss two light coats.

Pin wash using AK wash for Panzer gray straight from the bottle. It went on as expected drawing along the detail with capillary action.

On cleaning up with AK white spirit I found it quite hard to not get the colour everywhere I didn't want it. I think mainly as I could have used too much white spirit on the brush. Trying to achieve faded edges rather than hard ones was quite hard even after multiple clean ups with white spirit. I found it hard to collect the excess paint as I washed it with the brush so I resorted to a cotton bud and then after finding tide marks I applied white spirit over two larger sections and wiped it with some paper towel. Ok I may have scrubbed a bit but not like I was trying to sand something. As the area dried I saw it was more matte than the rest and lighter. Whoops I think I managed to get through the aqua gloss to the Tamiya paint.



You can see the large area on the base but also the edges on the rear (top of photo) where I used a cotton bud only. I think it had already appear to be lighter before that point so had only had a brush with white spirit over it and not anything scrubbed.

So I have multiple concerns and questions.

I feel I've followed the right method for a pin wash and my materials used should be compatible and not too harsh over the aqua gloss. Maybe someone can spot where I've gone wrong. Is cleaning the pin wash without tide marks or hard edges usually this hard? Maybe I'm just not being patient enough with cleaning the brush as I work.

Should I have been able to wipe with paper towel and white spirit through the aqua gloss. It's had a week to dry before I start the wash. I must admit it didn't look highly gloss. More satin. But the wash did apply correctly and not spread out as it might have on a matte surface. Could it just be that I didn't put enough aqua gloss on?

Is there anything I can do to improve the situation now on the base? I started there as a test. Lucky huh? I'm happy using dust and mud to cover as best I can and I'm not that worried on the finished look of the bottom.

What should I do about the next stages on the upper surfaces? I'd rather not repeat the same mistakes. I need to gloss over the decals so I have the opportunity to go over the whole upper surfaces again. Should it look really gloss or satin? Is satin is enough? Can I adjust the white spirit for AK odourless thinner which says it's more gentle? I heard turps can be prone to tide marks though and that's not something I'm having trouble generating as it is.

Maybe my technique is off. I applied as accurate as I could but I wasn't that worried as articles and videos I researched said don't worry it can be cleaned up in the white spirit phase. Anything I can do to reduce clean up or negate it? One video said apply a little white spirit to the area before the wash. Does that just help flow or does it even out the edges so less hard lines or tide marks?

Any alternatives to what I'm doing that I might find easier?

Thanks for reading and any replies appreciated.

Steve

[Augustus]

Wow, a lot of info to take in Steve, and I've had a few very strong painkillers (I fractured a couple of vertebrae last year, anyway...) I can't tell you exactly where you've gone wtong but just add a couple of things I do.

When using a brush to deal with the wash it should only be slightly moist with thinner as washes are usually mainly thinner anyway. It should be continually dried on paper towel after mopping up some fluid.

You mention rubbing and wiping? I do neither on paint work with anything, no matter what it's protected bu. If you need to mop up excess use a completely dry brush or I twist hand tail and just slightly touch it to th excess, capillary action will wick the moisture up.

Wiping the area with a slightly damp brush beforehand does help capillary action with pre made washes. I find I don't need it with home made Washes from oils. I've found the best pre made ones for capillary action are Tamiyas Panel Line Accent, but there's only a couple to choose from.

There's also the point that the less you put on in the first place the less you need to clean up. I use a brush with a fine point but one that can hold a bit of paint. The fine point is just touch where it's needs to be, nature takes it into the nooks and crannies and hopefully there's little on the rest of the model to clean up.

Sorry I can't be more help mate.

[SteveAFV]

Wow, a lot of info to take in Steve, and I've had a few very strong painkillers (I fractured a couple of vertebrae last year, anyway...)

...

There's also the point that the less you put on in the first place the less you need to clean up. I use a brush with a fine point but one that can hold a bit of paint. The fine point is just touch where it's needs to be, nature takes it into the nooks and crannies and hopefully there's little on the rest of the model to clean up.

Sorry I can't be more help mate.

Thanks for the reply. Hope the fracture heals soon.

It's kind of as I feared. I'm cack-handed. I have no idea if they phrase will translate well! I'm going to do a quick test on a spare bit of plastic sheet with bits cemented on but I think I just need to be more controlled and patient. Not really in my nature but I guess I could try;-)

[Twokidsnosleep]

Ya I am going with the too much solvent from the look in the picture...you wiped straight though the clear
You used a good clear seal brand, maybe just thicker layers and give a good 24 hour cure
Try a cotton bud dipped and squeeze dried to wipe away...shouldn't be "wet" as doesn't take much to remove the wash

Don't feel bad, many a good model have gone south with clear coat and washes....but most are repairable if you don't panic and ruin it. Course certainly not my current Phantom that I seem to be able blunder at every step...need to put call sign #13 on it

[Augustus]

Wow, a lot of info to take in Steve, and I've had a few very strong painkillers (I fractured a couple of vertebrae last year

Thanks for the reply. Hope the fracture heals soon.

It's kind of as I feared. I'm cack-handed. I have no idea if they phrase will translate well! I'm going to do a quick test on a spare bit of plastic sheet with bits cemented on but I think I just need to be more controlled and patient. Not really in my nature but I guess I could try;-)

Nothing to add, just thought I'd clear up with New Year etc when I said fractured last year I actually meany late 2015. The fractures have basically healed mate, but still get loads of pain. And cack handed doesn't need to translate I didn't leave England til early 30s.

Sorry for interrupting, carry on!

[SteveAFV]

Ya I am going with the too much solvent from the look in the picture...you wiped straight though the clear
You used a good clear seal brand, maybe just thicker layers and give a good 24 hour cure
Try a cotton bud dipped and squeeze dried to wipe away...shouldn't be "wet" as doesn't take much to remove the wash

Don't feel bad, many a good model have gone south with clear coat and washes....but most are repairable if you don't panic and ruin it. Course certainly not my current Phantom that I seem to be able blunder at every step...need to put call sign #13 on it

Thanks, yeah I think I was rushing and not thinking. There was this voice saying slow down think what you are doing but as usual I ignored it. Next time it'll be right. Mud on the tub will fix this mistake.

[SteveAFV]

Nothing to add, just thought I'd clear up with New Year etc when I said fractured last year I actually meany late 2015. The fractures have basically healed mate, but still get loads of pain. And cack handed doesn't need to translate I didn't leave England til early 30s.

Sorry for interrupting, carry on!

Ah all good. I have had a long period of nerve pain and many many fractures so I feel for you. It's winter too, aches a plenty.

[Twokidsnosleep]

There ya go, mud on the tub will cover it up perfectly..good solution
Just be careful as it will REALLY stick to that rougher surface

[Bissyboat]

I had the same problem on a tug boat. Usually it blends in, but on mine I got a lot of blotches. My way of attacking the problem was simply to coat the entire hull with White spirit to even out the blemishes. But of course that means starting over again from scratch.

[schweinhund227]

My take on your woes... it seems you "might be" mistaking a *pin wash* with a *Wash* They are two different beasts all together.

a pin wash is deliberately put on or near raised details or fed in panel lines...
not smeared over the surface as it will then become a wash or a filter even, if further diluted.

May I ask? at what pressure you sprayed the Aqua Clear coat ? it should be below 20psi... to get a gloss coat versus a sandy finish...which doesn't offer full protection... and could let Enamel products seep under and cause even more issues... and let your Aqua clear dried fully... for no less than 24hrs for it to offer, rock hard protection.

Happy modelling !

[SteveAFV]

My take on your woes... it seems you "might be" mistaking a *pin wash* with a *Wash* They are two different beasts all together.

a pin wash is deliberately put on or near raised details or fed in panel lines...
not smeared over the surface as it will then become a wash or a filter even, if further diluted.

May I ask? at what pressure you sprayed the Aqua Clear coat ? it should be below 20psi... to get a gloss coat versus a sandy finish...which doesn't offer full protection... and could let Enamel products seep under and cause even more issues... and let your Aqua clear dried fully... for no less than 24hrs for it to offer, rock hard protection.

Happy modelling !

Appreciate the reply.

No I get the difference in technique. I wasn't intentionally spreading it around. It ended up that way as I made a mess of cleaning up. I waited an hour for the enamel drying.

I sprayed at 15psi and it had a few days curing. There is the potential I didn't cover the one rear edge you see at top if photo but I'd be surprised if I hadn't covered the bigger area that rubbed away. I said in my post I scrubbed but maybe it was more wiped. I didn't go at it like I was sanding something. I believe I maybe didnt cover well enough but the real reason I got into the trouble was my pin wash clear up. Less white spirit on the brush and being more accurate with application in the first place. I'll be trying again this weekend.

[schweinhund227]

My take on your woes... it seems you "might be" mistaking a *pin wash* with a *Wash* They are two different beasts all together.

a pin wash is deliberately put on or near raised details or fed in panel lines...
not smeared over the surface as it will then become a wash or a filter even, if further diluted.

May I ask? at what pressure you sprayed the Aqua Clear coat ? it should be below 20psi... to get a gloss coat versus a sandy finish...which doesn't offer full protection... and could let Enamel products seep under and cause even more issues... and let your Aqua clear dried fully... for no less than 24hrs for it to offer, rock hard protection.

Happy modelling !

Appreciate the reply.

No I get the difference in technique. I wasn't intentionally spreading it around. It ended up that way as I made a mess of cleaning up. I waited an hour for the enamel drying.

I sprayed at 15psi and it had a few days curing. There is the potential I didn't cover the one rear edge you see at top if photo but I'd be surprised if I hadn't covered the bigger area that rubbed away. I said in my post I scrubbed but maybe it was more wiped. I didn't go at it like I was sanding something. I believe I maybe didnt cover well enough but the real reason I got into the trouble was my pin wash clear up. Less white spirit on the brush and being more accurate with application in the first place. I'll be trying again this weekend.

It's ok ! I hope you will get it down path and that your weathering experience gets you what you are after!

Best of luck and ... its ok to spray a few layers.... of that Aqua Clear if you plan to go heavy on weathering...

[SteveAFV]

Thank you guys. I had success on the superstructure.



Quite happy with that

[Plopper]

That looks great, nice save.