Phantom Phreak MD F4E Phantom II Thunderbird

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:29 pm

Putting this out there and hope I can follow through with the plan. Got some multi plane diorama ideas
Timing not the greatest as hopefully moving into new digs late October-mid November, but we shall see what I can do

Love the box art on this retro kit. It was $12 and included PE coming from a favourite seller on E bay so could not resist.

url=https://flic.kr/p/EQqmKV]

[/url]E94A8F05-A978-4EBD-9CDA-C348A3F67B08 by Scott Hastings, on Flickr

*modifying thread to deal with the photobucket a holes stealing all the pics

Vleugelmoer · Post by **Vleugelmoer** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:51 pm

Cool stuff Scott, nice to have you join in on the fun

. You could also opt to postpone the move

:nah: you have been working to long and hard not to start enjoying the fruits of all that work.

Nice to see you are catching on to the PH f's that where originally started by McDonnell Douglas

Tuning in to see this one unfold.

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:09 pm

Vleugelmoer wrote:Cool stuff Scott, nice to have you join in on the fun . You could also opt to postpone the move :nah: you have been working to long and hard not to start enjoying the fruits of all that work.

Nice to see you are catching on to the PH f's that where originally started by McDonnell Douglas

Tuning in to see this one unfold.

Thanks Paul
Hey if I may ask, where does the Phantom fall in performance compared to newer US aircraft??
I can't seem to find a performance comparison chart vs a F15 or F16
Interested to see the advancements

Lysus · Post by **Lysus** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:53 pm

Twokidsnosleep wrote:
Vleugelmoer wrote:Cool stuff Scott, nice to have you join in on the fun . You could also opt to postpone the move :nah: you have been working to long and hard not to start enjoying the fruits of all that work.

Nice to see you are catching on to the PH f's that where originally started by McDonnell Douglas

Tuning in to see this one unfold.
Thanks Paul
Hey if I may ask, where does the Phantom fall in performance compared to newer US aircraft??
I can't seem to find a performance comparison chart vs a F15 or F16
Interested to see the advancements

I think the F-4 had an edge in shark teeth, for sure.

Vleugelmoer · Post by **Vleugelmoer** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:54 pm

I think I might be able to help on the performance charts. I'm currently out of the house so will get you the numbers when I'm home.

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:13 pm

Vleugelmoer wrote:I think I might be able to help on the performance charts. I'm currently out of the house so will get you the numbers when I'm home.

Awesome, just a reference is fine don't kill yourself posting stuff.
I didn't come up with the right google search parameters I suppose

Spook · Post by **Spook** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:35 pm

Hey if I may ask, where does the Phantom fall in performance compared to newer US aircraft??
I can't seem to find a performance comparison chart vs a F15 or F16
Interested to see the advancements

I've got some data that puts the f4e against the mig23,f15e,mig21,tornado,f16a,f4k/m and bae Lightning if your interested pal.

Spook · Post by **Spook** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:01 pm

Wow if you get a chance to build all that.

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:11 pm

Spook wrote:
Hey if I may ask, where does the Phantom fall in performance compared to newer US aircraft??
I can't seem to find a performance comparison chart vs a F15 or F16
Interested to see the advancements
I've got some data that puts the f4e against the mig23,f15e,mig21,tornado,f16a,f4k/m and bae Lightning if your interested pal.

oh yeah, that is exactly what I was pondering...where the Rhino stacks up vs others

If I get one of the planes built I will be happy. A dio made.....then ecstatic

Spook · Post by **Spook** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:36 pm

Best picture I could take on the iPad pal.

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:42 pm

That is perfect Spook

The flying Anvil did pretty darn well for her size, age and weight. I can see why they were kept in service for so long
Thanks for all that Mate

Vleugelmoer · Post by **Vleugelmoer** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:53 pm

Twokidsnosleep wrote:
Vleugelmoer wrote:I think I might be able to help on the performance charts. I'm currently out of the house so will get you the numbers when I'm home.
Awesome, just a reference is fine don't kill yourself posting stuff.
I didn't come up with the right google search parameters I suppose

No worries Scott, I have several F-4 bid proposals in PDF just need to find it in my PDF references for this SIG.

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:24 am

Lysus wrote:
I think the F-4 had an edge in shark teeth, for sure.

You funny guy you, I almost missed that comment

Lysus · Post by **Lysus** » Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:38 am

Twokidsnosleep wrote:
Lysus wrote:
I think the F-4 had an edge in shark teeth, for sure.

You funny guy you, I almost missed that comment

I'm sneaky.

ladip63 · Post by **ladip63** » Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:31 am

Looks like that is going to be one mean F4, Scott.

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:28 am

ladip63 wrote:Looks like that is going to be one mean F4, Scott.

Thanks Lynn, hope so
Wishing you more good luck on the interview....will send good vibes over

Vleugelmoer · Post by **Vleugelmoer** » Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:27 am

I see that Spook has already beaten me to posting some performance data of the F-4 vs it's main competitors

he even posted the same info I was going to.

That being said I also have this bit of aviation history in my reference section library on the laptop.
It the official McDonnell Douglas publication on the F-4 Families weights and measures. It all dry reading but it may interest you non the least.

The file is to big to attach so here's the link to where I found it.

http://aviationarchives.blogspot.nl/sea ... YJfKrVY%3D

GuyMac · Post by **GuyMac** » Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:37 pm

Scott, buddy, this is going to be an awesome one I'm sure.
Bring it on

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:45 pm

I was banned from the shared office/ modelling room by a grumpy wife doing business work
Can you believe it???? Banned!!! ME!!! Because she says I am too loud and disruptive

I am a church mouse and blessed lamb

So no Phantom start Thursday, will try today
Hmmmph

Lysus · Post by **Lysus** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:57 pm

Twokidsnosleep wrote:I was banned from the shared office/ modelling room by a grumpy wife doing business work
Can you believe it???? Banned!!! ME!!! Because she says I am too loud and disruptive
I am a church mouse and blessed lamb

So no Phantom start Thursday, will try today
Hmmmph

Sounds to me like you need to grind down some scratch built landing struts today. Loudly.

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:00 pm

She is fairly mean and grumpy around year end...which was End of June. So she is a good year behind on everything nd not to be messed with.
I surfed eBay instead in the living room and bought a razor saw for me and a skate sharpening machine for my son.
That will teach her.

Lysus · Post by **Lysus** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:07 pm

Twokidsnosleep wrote:She is fairly mean and grumpy around year end...which was End of June. So she is a good year behind on everything nd not to be messed with.
I surfed eBay instead in the living room and bought a razor saw for me and a skate sharpening machine for my son.
That will teach her.

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:46 pm

exactly....except it was tools. I have FAAAR too many kits

Ok guts of the kit out on the desk

Unceremoniously pulled from a gnarly old box, racks were all stacked together with no bags. Hope everything is there.
Had the decals suntanning in my office window for a couple weeks ....even if i don't use them

no pic anymore

The cockpit has raised detail, buttons, bezels and switches. I may keep that PE for the black bunny

Hope to get going on the "office" after some house running around....IKEA is on her list blahh

Lysus · Post by **Lysus** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:55 pm

Ugh...Ikea...

Hold fast, Scott.

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:07 pm

She is giving me the

as I laugh at these pics,
Time to fly...or be dragged away actually

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:51 pm

Dodged IKEA, but got blind-sided by Costco, then stone tile place and lighting place.
At this point in the house build I am a yes man...." Sure honey, perfect". Most of what she chooses is fine by me anyways

The seats, pilots and cockpit of this Hase are kind of sad. Pathetic blocks of semi formed styrene may be a better description.
So it is either lots of PE or scratch build. Those 1/48 and 1/32 kits are blowing this away in details
I may have a look at the other one I have and see if it makes more sense to do it
My plan may shift to a Navy F4 rather than a Marines one

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:49 am

Added something for my Black Bunny build..whenever that actually happens

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:04 am

Good eBay haul day...more armamentarium for the Phantoms.
A re-scribing form and the water soluble putty I have heard others rave about

Now if I could just get some time, energy and motivation

Avgas · Post by **Avgas** » Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:49 pm

Best picture I could take on the iPad pal.

Interesting low level top speeds there...the Lightning had a Vne (max permitted indicated air speed) of 650 kts which is around .98M and the Mk2 Tornado had a Vne of 800kts which is M1.21. The Phantom in RAF service had a Vne of 750 kts which pans out at M1.13, I'm not sure what the Vne of the GE engined USA F4's were as they had smaller intakes than the Spey engined RAF a/c but I would imagine that it would have been around the same. All of those speeds are at sea level, of course IAS compared to true air speed drops off as you gain altitude which is why you can achieve high Mach numbers for the same IAS. At 40,000' you get very roughly twice your IAS ie if your IAS is indicating 500 kts you're actually doing around 1000 kts hence why the higher Mach numbers and true air speeds can be attained at altitude.

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:14 am

You are a pilot so I know you know what you are talking about...I can only dream about it
Can you imagine being strapped into one of these beasts in her prime pushing machII???
I bet these blew everything out of the air around them in the seventies

Avgas · Post by **Avgas** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:24 am

There's suprisingly little sensation of speed at M2.0 as you have to be pretty high to achieve it! 150 kts in a Chinook 20' off the deck, now that's exciting.

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:51 am

Finally cracked her open and started out.
Working on the pilots...you can see they start out looking like elephant man mummies.
I have made a face sheild for both and this is a primer layer. I had to cut in all the details as the moulding is a bit sad. Lots of room for detailing with belts and buckles and pockets and such

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:56 pm

Here comes our pilot, call sign is The Flash...hmmm wonder why
Rough trimmed and surface lines cut, then primed

Jeeze Hasegawa, give me a bit of help on the moulding on this

Lysus · Post by **Lysus** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:52 pm

Heh, flash.

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:39 pm

The kit seat. I drill a hole to give the headrest a U shape and add score lines to separate cushion from frame plus make some ejector handles.

The office chairs, they were pretty blobby blobs comparing RHS original to my modified

This is as far as I will take this one as pilot in seat and canopy closed plan so not much more visible

GuyMac · Post by **GuyMac** » Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:28 pm

Great work Scott

Spook · Post by **Spook** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:12 pm

Looking good Scott

Spook · Post by **Spook** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:17 pm

Avgas wrote:There's suprisingly little sensation of speed at M2.0 as you have to be pretty high to achieve it! 150 kts in a Chinook 20' off the deck, now that's exciting.

Got to agree with you there Dave, I flew in a lot chinooks in the 90s and I always felt like I had he crazy pilots you could never believe a machine that big could be that nimble.

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:27 pm

Ungodly holy crud

This thing fits together like, well, like nothing because it doesn't fit together

The boys were in their seats all ready to go flying so the wheel well/cockpit assembly is purportedly cemented "there", wherever "there" may happen to be, into the right fuselage which of course has huge impact on seat position and seam fit on the fuselage halves and cockpit halves. My god this kit must have driven 8 year olds bonkers in the 70's

So I cut off any index pins, few that there were, fired up the TET, Ca glue and kicker and "got er done".
There will be some putty and trimming as this has to be even worse fit the the Italeri/Tamiya kit I am doing in the Tamiya GB
Shoot I hope the canopy fits, didn't test that out during my trials.

Tried out the Vallejo putty last night as well..good stuff, bit of a learning curve, but nice on a 90* seam fill.
Pictures when photobucket settles down....and I have time

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:42 pm

Ok the photo bucket has not yet kicked and appears to be working better now
The instructions with detailed fitment and precise alignment

Daffy duck's version of the correct location of the cockpit into the fuselage...the great unknown

Boys in the office. Seams seams wonderful seams

The F4 all hog tied up

I can't wait for the wings!!!

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:24 pm

A Tale of Two Putties; Some findings with the two putties I am using

[

For sealing a seam the Vallejo is great, can be worked with a damp Q tip and very little extra left behind
It is the white stuff at wing fuselage intersection
BUT if you try to scrape, sand or refine shape mechanically in any way, the putty peels off or chunks up into balls.

The 3M body putty is good for bulk fitting or reshaping where you have to work the putty into desired shape or fill large voids
It is the reddish material all over the place
It is harder to control excess, so there will be more sanding, but it wont just ball up in a rubbery mess

Interested to see if they handle paint differently

SkyPainter303 · Post by **SkyPainter303** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:08 am

I am guessing lacquer thinner will remove excess 3M body putty at the time you spread it on, but you need to be careful about not damaging the plastic.

kprice52001 · Post by **kprice52001** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:08 am

Spook wrote:
Best picture I could take on the iPad pal.

Notice that the F-15 max speed is 2.5 +.... Top speed is classified but when I was in the US Air Force I used to be an F-15 crewchief. I know that there is a V-MAX switch that when flipped the fuel restrictors are blown open and this airframe can out run a SAM. However, after you flip the toggle it dosent have long before it runs out of fuel and the engine both need to be pulled rebuilt rebuilt.

kprice52001 · Post by **kprice52001** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:13 am

Twokidsnosleep wrote:Some findings with the two putties I am using

For sealing a seam the Vallejo is great, can be worked with a damp Q tip and very little extra left behind
It is the white stuff at wing fuselage intersection
BUT if you try to scrape, sand or refine shape mechanically in any way, the putty peels off or chunks up into balls.

The 3M body putty is good for bulk fitting or reshaping where you have to work the putty into desired shape or fill large voids
It is the reddish material all over the place
It is harder to control excess, so there will be more sanding, but it wont just ball up in a rubbery mess

Interested to see if they handle paint differently

This looks a lot like the F-4 I was putting together before It exploded. Your right about the putty thats why I went with the 48th scale for the replacement.

Looking good though Keep up the progress I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product!

Kevin

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:56 am

SkyPainter303 wrote:I am guessing lacquer thinner will remove excess 3M body putty at the time you spread it on, but you need to be careful about not damaging the plastic.

Bingo, exactly.
Too fine a line with the lacquer thinner as it eats plastic pretty quickly

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:59 am

kprice52001 wrote:
Twokidsnosleep wrote:Some findings with the two putties I am using

For sealing a seam the Vallejo is great, can be worked with a damp Q tip and very little extra left behind
It is the white stuff at wing fuselage intersection
BUT if you try to scrape, sand or refine shape mechanically in any way, the putty peels off or chunks up into balls.

The 3M body putty is good for bulk fitting or reshaping where you have to work the putty into desired shape or fill large voids
It is the reddish material all over the place
It is harder to control excess, so there will be more sanding, but it wont just ball up in a rubbery mess

Interested to see if they handle paint differently
This looks a lot like the F-4 I was putting together before It exploded. Your right about the putty thats why I went with the 48th scale for the replacement.

Looking good though Keep up the progress I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product!

Kevin

Thanks bud, love the insider info on the VMax switch

Would have loved 1/48, but was trying to stay within a budget and space allowances.
REALLY want one of those F4 1/32 kits we have seen built here..maybe one day

kprice52001 · Post by **kprice52001** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:32 am

Thanks bud, love the insider info on the VMax switch

Would have loved 1/48, but was trying to stay within a budget and space allowances.
REALLY want one of those F4 1/32 kits we have seen built here..maybe one day[/quote]

I'm with you on that man, the 32nd would be tits! Especially with those resins intakes.

I swore that when I finished that last f4 I would never do another 72nd scale again. My fat, clumsy meat cleaver hands can't deal with the small of scale. Which sucks because I think the 72nd scale display better. I know the 42nds are a bit more pricey but I don't maintain a stash I build what I buy and move on which makes it a little easier to save my pennies up for kits. That being said I'm currently working on like 10 different models..... lol sounds like an opened stash when I put it like that.

Kevin

Spook · Post by **Spook** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:19 am

That looked pretty painless with the putty compared to your 1/72 tamiya.

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:52 am

Spook wrote:That looked pretty painless with the putty compared to your 1/72 tamiya.

Live and learn my friend, live and learn
Still lots of sanding and maybe a re-scribe. The opportunity to screw up remains high

Post by **Twokidsnosleep** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:00 am

She is sitting nose down in my pencil pot on my desk so that all the carpenter's glue pools into the nose.
I folded a few lead foil packets from old x ray film and jammed them into the nose cone then syringed the glue in through the front wheel well.
A smarter man would have done this before gluing the fuselage halves together...BUT I am not that smarter man